Home Economics: Why Our Housing Market is Out of Reach and What We can Do About It

When your favorite barista, your child's teacher, and the firefighter who protects your home can no longer afford to live in your community - what kind of place will Greenville County become? Bryan Brown and Amber Stewart from Greenville Housing Fund reveal the surprising reality that 80% of our workforce earns below the area's median income, making housing increasingly out of reach. They dismantle common misconceptions about "affordable housing" while explaining how innovative tax incentives and thoughtful density planning are already transforming neighborhoods. Beyond policy talk, this conversation illuminates how our housing ecosystem connects everyone from service workers to retirees on fixed incomes, and why the places we call home determine the community we share. Listen to understand how your neighborhood's character, your favorite local businesses, and Greenville's future are all shaped by the housing decisions we make today.

Links:

Greenville Housing Fund

Greenville Affordable Housing Coalition

House Bill H-4164 (Community Development Tax Credit reauthorization)

Transcript

Katy Smith: [0:02] Almost every community member I speak with about this community's challenges names affordable housing as one of the biggest. We've done several episodes on the topic of affordable housing, and we'll link those in the show notes for you. Today, we will get detailed about the economics, policies, and on-the-ground conditions that make it possible for us to create housing that's attainable for people at all income levels. I'm Katy Smith with Greater Good Greenville, and on this episode of Simple Civics: Greenville County, I speak with folks from the Greenville Housing Fund, Brian Brown, President and CEO, and Amber Stewart, Advocacy and Engagement Director. They will note that more than 80 percent, the vast majority of Greenville County's residents, make less than our area's median income, meaning that there is a severe lack of places in our community they can afford. But they'll point out ways that elected officials, government staff, the private sector, nonprofits, and new listeners can be part of the solution to our housing shortage. You can learn more about Greenville Housing Fund in our link in the show notes. Well, I'm so pleased to be joined by Amber Stewart and Brian Brown with the Greenville Housing Fund here to talk about a really important topic. And just from their name, I'm sure listeners know they have a big job and we're really grateful to them for doing it.

Amber Stewart: [1:19] Glad to be here. Thank you.

Bryan Brown: [1:21] Thank you for having us.

Katy Smith: [1:22] Yeah. All right. Well, let's talk about affordable housing. It creates a picture of a place or a particular building in the minds of many, but it's really a relative term. So I'd love for you all to start by defining what is affordable housing?

Bryan Brown: [1:36] Well, I always like to start by reminding folks that everyone lives in affordable housing because they live in housing that's affordable to them. And so what we really mean by the term I like and I like to say housing affordability. So housing that is affordable to the person we're talking about is that you should be spending no more than 30% of your monthly income towards your housing. If you are spending more than 30% of your monthly income towards your housing, we consider you housing insecure. And if you spend more than 50% of your monthly income towards your housing, we consider you severely cost burdened. And unfortunately, we have a sizable number of community members who are paying 50% or more of their monthly income towards their housing, primarily because we live in a high cost and growing housing market.

Katy Smith: [2:43] It's such a great point because you imagine that all of us want to be able to afford our housing, but some are CEOs of a large company that might have a large six-figure or seven-figure budget, but there is still something that is 30% for that people, just like there is for someone making minimum wage. So 30% is a relative term, but an important one. So what does that look like for the average individual?

Amber Stewart: [3:05] Yeah, so we know Greenville County is growing. We have over 500,000 people in our county. And the majority of our workforce falls under that what we call 80% area median income or AMI. So here in Greenville County, to be at the average 100% AMI for a family of four, you're having a yearly income of $89,000. So what does that look like? When we actually break that down of who makes 100% AMI or below, the majority of our workforce is in about the 50 to 60% AMI range, over 60% of our workforce. So that's the majority of who is living and working in Greenville County. So those are our health care individuals, people working in manufacturing, sales, food service, office administration. That's what makes our county thriving because we want to be able to drive downtown and access the wonderful restaurants and amenities. We want to be able to go to the fun sports arenas and concerts and shows, and we want to be able to go out into the wonderful parks and stuff that are offered.

Amber Stewart: [4:23] And so to actually like paint a picture of what that looks like from a safety measure is like our firefighters who are making sure they're responding to our community needs. The starting yearly salary for a firefighter here in Greenville County is $48,000 a year. And so if you're making $48,000 and we're going off of the definition that Brian shared of, we should only be spending 30% of our income on housing. An individual who's a starter firefighter, they should only max be renting $1,200 a month on a rental property. But our current average rent in Greenville County is $1,400. And so that just makes it challenging to have choices and finding that affordability based on your income.

Bryan Brown: [5:14] And to compound that, you mentioned, you know, we have this growing community, right? And people are moving here because it's such a nice place to live. And so what's happening in the context of what Amber just described is as folks move in with higher incomes, they are consuming housing that's more affordable than what they could really. So if I can afford, you know, $3,000 a month, but I'm living in a place for $1,500, I am occupying a place that somebody else can no longer access, and that is pushing down on the housing market. And so just everything that Amber just described, those are, you know, really folks who are solidly in our workforce. But think about those folks who are in lower wage jobs. And so as the consumption of housing is occurring in our community.

Bryan Brown: [6:18] Folks with fewer means are really getting more priced out. And so as we look across the housing ecosystem, you know, there is a continuum of housing that we talk about. And it goes from unsheltered homeless to market rate homeownership. And there's a broad continuum. And through our life cycle, people move up and down that continuum. You know, think about, hey, I've lived in my house my whole life. I raised my family. I'm retired. Now I'm on a fixed income. Maybe my property taxes are going up. Maybe my maintenance costs are going up. I've got repairs and I can no longer afford it. And so people, you know, kind of get into a position where they're forced to sell. Same thing if they're, you know, living in a rental or in a condo where the fees go up and they lose their spouse, they're widowed. All of a sudden now it's like, I can't afford to live here anymore. I have to move to something more affordable.

Bryan Brown: [7:18] And that happens every day across our community. And so I think the reason that's important for people to think about is, you know, it's a dynamic market, including housing market, and that people's circumstances change. They get married, they have kids, you know, they were in a one or two bedroom, now they need a three bedroom, so on and so forth. And so I want people to really think about how dynamic the market is. And when we talk about housing, you know, people are moving in and up and down as things change. And, you know, we have a growing population of older people. So all across America, it's called, you know, it's referred to sometimes as a silver tsunami. Think about the aging population and what that means for our housing needs and what they can spend. I believe that our senior population is the most vulnerable population in the community because they're on a fixed income. They're very constrained in what they can afford, and their options are becoming more limited as our population grows and housing is consumed by younger people.

Katy Smith: [8:29] Thank you for painting that picture because I do think, when you think of affordable housing, you think we need to build a new thing. And yes, that is a part of it. But how dynamic, as you said, the housing market is, you know, I think about my, you know, I'm someone in my mid 50s. So have someone recently out of college and I'm seeing kids graduate from college and want to move back to their hometown and need an apartment. And that is what someone who, as you described, is retired. They might also want an apartment. And then you have people moving here from much wealthier housing markets like California or New York who find our apartments to be a bargain. And all those people are now seeking that same affordable unit. So it's a big challenge that we have and that you really have at Greenville Housing Fund.

Bryan Brown: [9:15] It is. And people who've lived here for any length of time or especially people who are from our community, you know, they're seeing the market as, you know, cost escalating. But your point's a really good one. People outside our market, they're looking at this like, wow, this is a bargain.

Katy Smith: [9:34] Right, right. That's what I'm always so astonished by.

Bryan Brown: [9:37] And so that's kind of what we're up against. And so our role at the Greenville Housing Fund is to really work across the housing ecosystem with our partners. We have an affordable housing coalition that Amber staffs, public and private organizations. The private sector is a big piece of our housing market, but we also have nonprofit partners, we have government partners, and we need all of those partners to work together to really create a healthy housing market that is attainable for everyone.

Katy Smith: [10:13] Well, given how popular Greenville County is for people to move to, and really all of South Carolina, and that means housing's in high demand, what tools are available to those different parties that you mentioned, Brian, to government, private entities and individuals, nonprofits, to make more affordable housing available?

Bryan Brown: [10:31] There are programs available. We work in a variety of funding programs that are supported through a variety of government entities. And so if you think about it, we're here in Greenville and we're talking about the Greenville housing market. But the reality is we need our local partners, so our cities and our county, to be supportive from a public policy perspective. We need their support for affordable housing, but we also need our partners at the state and our partners at the federal level because housing is impacted by all three levels of government. So housing is highly regulated. So when you think about the cost of new housing and why is it going up, the National Home Builders Association put out a report recently, describe the regulatory cost of new construction in the single-family market and the multifamily market. And in the multifamily market, 40% of the cost of multifamily construction is regulatory. It's also 22 to 25% for the cost of single-family construction.

Katy Smith: [11:51] So what would create those regulatory costs?

Bryan Brown: [11:55] So think about land. And we spent a lot of time locally talking about we have a new development code in the city. The counties were working on their universal development ordinance. And so that is a regulatory framework for how do you zone land? So what can go there? What do you have to comply with? So there's land regulations. There are environmental regulations. There are building codes. There are design regulations. There are health and safety regulations. And I'm not saying we don't need these. We do, but we practice in the low-income housing tax credit program, for example.

Bryan Brown: [12:43] So if we have a piece of land and we're going to develop something on it we have to go through this environmental process and it's cool. I don't know how much detail you want me to get into but there's like a phase one that might trigger a phase two if you go beyond a phase two and you have to do a full environmental review and if you're working with any kind of rental assistance subsidy. You have to do an environmental review. So phase one, phase two, and environmental review all have separate costs. We could be spending $50,000 just on environmental reports.

Bryan Brown: [13:21] And the environmental review report, I just saw one recently with 700 pages. And I'd like to know one human being who reads that because I don't think there is one. And certainly we need environmental regulations, no question about it. But it seems to me that we also need an effort to reduce, you know, we talk about reducing our carbon footprint. I'd like to reduce our paperwork footprint and some of this work and really get at the essential points. And so all of these regulations that I just described, land, zoning, building, health and safety, and the type of windows you can use in a building, a minimum square footage, maximum square footage, all these things, they all add cost to what we do and how we do it. And so to me, we need all of our levels of government focused on expanding housing affordability.

Bryan Brown: [14:23] Making housing production more feasible and frankly more robust. We're in a market right now where interest rates are high, construction costs are going up, you know, whether or not we have tariffs could impact the price of materials, just the cost of wood, aluminum. Just think about typical building materials, windows, and what goes into that. If those costs are going up, it's just making housing harder.

Amber Stewart: [14:55] With all the partnerships at all the levels that Brian mentioned, that's so important for the public-private partnerships. I think a lot of times people, when they hear affordable housing, they think it's cheaper quality housing. But to build housing at a rate that is attainable for individuals, it costs the same as much as any other market rate housing. And the difference is the funding behind it, because at a market rate.

Amber Stewart: [15:25] Whatever costs go into building that, that just gets pushed off to the end user is paying for it, if it's the home sale price or the rent price. And so that gets us what gets passed off. But when it comes to affordable, you need it to be subsidized. And so that's why we rely on partnerships at all level to help reduce those costs, because to make affordable housing happen, like there are usually five, six plus funding sources to make it. And so that's why we, with private donations, private investments that people make to great organizations across the county, and then relying on whatever those public dollars are or incentives to encourage affordable housing, make it more feasible to reduce those costs so that they can charge a lower home sale price or rental price so that individuals can access it and have the attainability to that housing.

Bryan Brown: [16:26] Amber's making such a great point. So when we construct or build housing, it costs what it costs. And... Civics, since that's what we're talking about, I think it's really important to remind people that in our state, affordable housing is a public purpose. And the reason it's a public purpose is we need attainable housing to maintain a healthy and vibrant community. So it's like transit. Public transit is a public purpose. Affordable housing is, our state legislature has declared that as a public purpose. And what that means is, since it's a public purpose, it's available for public support, right? And so that's the mechanism by which we can trigger public support into affordable housing. So here in Greenville County, for example, we have an affordable housing policy incentive passed a couple years ago. And if we're building housing and it costs, you know, X amount to construct it. And the market rent is $1,400, just as the example. And I'm a private developer and you're asking me to deliver that product and charge less.

Bryan Brown: [17:45] It costs what it costs to build. If I'm going for $1,400 a month and you're asking me to charge $900, it's a $500 a month gap. So that's $6,000 a year in reduced revenue, which means I've got debt that I've probably carrying on this development that I have to pay. I've got operating expenses and so on. A popular policy incentive across America that communities typically use is called a tax abatement. And in Greenville County, we've authorized the use of a tax abatement under certain circumstances when we've asked, for example, a private developer to include in your new development 20% of the units at a more affordable price. So in what I just described, we're asking that developer to take less revenue. This incentive is simply designed to reduce the operating expense of the tax bill to match up with the reduction in revenue we've asked this developer to accept.

Bryan Brown: [18:52] It's as simple as that. And it's a good way, I hope, of folks to understand nobody's making anything off of this policy. It's just we're reducing their tax burden to match up with the reduction in revenue we've asked them to take to provide units to more people at a lower income.

Katy Smith: [19:16] That's really well described. Right. Given how in demand housing is and that it costs what it costs to build, what are some tools that you could bullet for listeners that are here to make a difference in Greenville County?

Bryan Brown: [19:29] Great question. So there's the cost of land. So maybe we have either cheaper land or free land. Time is money. So maybe we can streamline our approval process on land regulations and the development, complying with the development ordinances to speed things up. That saves money. Maybe we can subsidize some capital sourcing through the tax credit program, Community Reinvestment Act sources through our lending partners. Those are some tools to make the development and the sources of capital to build a project cost less. But at the end of the day, it's going to cost what it costs. And then the developer is going to rely on the revenue generated by the project to meet not only the debt service on the project, but the ongoing operating expenses, the cost of insurance, and paying the taxpayer.

Bryan Brown: [20:32] And so one of the tools, another local tool that we have control over is how we assess and charge property taxes in our community. And in Greenville County, we actually have an affordable housing incentive policy that uses the property tax as a way to incentivize the inclusion of a component of affordable housing in an otherwise market rate transaction. Right now, what we've been talking about is how do you construct a housing and how do you make it more affordable and more attainable to the end user? And so if we have a market rate development and we want to make 20% of those units, so if there's 100 units and we want 20 of them to be more affordable and it's a private transaction, the best way to do that is by reducing the property tax bill.

Bryan Brown: [21:27] And what a lot of people in Greenville and in South Carolina don't know, because it's not on the forefront of everybody's mind, is our property tax system in the state is structured in a way that's not equal for everyone. So if you live in a home that you own, you are taxed at a much lower rate than commercial and multifamily properties are. There's a 4% tax rate for homeowners and a 6% tax rate for commercial property. And that's because the way we pay for public education in the state of South Carolina is really carried by commercial property.

Bryan Brown: [22:08] Property owners. That burden does not rest on homeowners in our state. And so multifamily falls under that commercial rate. We have a very expensive tax environment in the state of South Carolina for apartment communities. And I don't know that most people know that. And so that's why the policy incentive to reduce that tax burden for the inclusion of housing affordability, I think is not only fair, but smart because we can demonstrate when we are using this tool. So think about a raw piece of land in the community. Even at a higher tax rate, it's producing what it's producing. If a developer comes along and says, hey, I'm going to spend $150 million building this apartment community and you want me to include 20% of it as affordable.

Bryan Brown: [23:06] And I want to use that tax incentive that you have to reduce my tax bill. In our community, I'm here to tell you, in every instance I can think of, the community is receiving a much higher income from the property taxes paid even when they're reduced because it was raw land which wasn't producing very much revenue for the community, you know, in terms of tax receipts or the taxes being paid, something's built. And yes, the tax bill, if it was all market rate and very expensive, would be higher than, but if we reduce those taxes so we can have essential workers living in this apartment community, we're still receiving way more taxes than we were before, and we are achieving the public purpose of more affordable housing. So to me, that's a win-win for the community.

Katy Smith: [24:04] That's a great, I really appreciate you painting that picture. Because now I'm imagining the firefighter that you mentioned earlier, who is making $48,000 a year who cannot afford a rental at market rate in Greenville County. And through what you just described now, they are receiving a lower rental rate because the tax on the developer and operator of that apartment is lower.

Bryan Brown: [24:29] Is reduced.

Katy Smith: [24:30] Is reduced. And thus, in a way, that firefighter isn't paying 6% tax rate where a homeowner is paying a 4%. It's making it more attainable.

Bryan Brown: [24:38] My hope is, as we learn more about housing and how we all can live in vibrant communities where, you know, hey, my HVAC guy lives around the corner and the CEO of the bank lives two blocks away. America is a very economically stratified place. And we didn't used to be that way. We all live together. And to me, that's a healthy way to live. And we live in an economy and in a community that's driven by tourism. And think about all the workers who support our tourism economy. We don't want them living an hour away from where they work in a hotel or a restaurant or a venue that we all take for granted. We want those folks to live close to where they work and where they're supporting us. I mean, I think every time I go to the grocery store and I see the people who work there, sometimes I wonder, I wonder where that person lives and how far away from the store they live. And my hope is it's not very far.

Katy Smith: [25:43] Right. Because that commute itself is an hour of someone's potentially minimum wage time that they're not getting paid for.

Bryan Brown: [25:49] And it's a cost to all of us in terms of infrastructure. So ultimately, we all benefit from a more integrated environment where we all live closer together in a community that when I say diverse, I mean diverse people who do different things for a living. You know, our school teachers and our grocery store workers, our restaurant workers, our hotel workers, and et cetera, that's the kind of community I think we all should aspire to live in. And that's the pressure we're under as a community where if you want something more affordable, you have to kind of start driving outside of the urban core of Greenville to get to more natural affordability. And the other thing we should care about, I mean, we mentioned infrastructure, roads, but green space. And I'm here to tell you that we are better off as a community if we are focusing our housing development efforts in the middle third of this county where the infrastructure exists. So we can keep the special green character of the northern part of the county and then the rural, you know, farm character of the southern part of the county and really focus our density and our housing infrastructure on the middle third where all of the water and sewer lines are.

Amber Stewart: [27:19] I know when people hear the word density, they kind of tense up the same way that they may be like, I'm all for affordable housing, but maybe not just down the block from where I live. I think with density, it's not high rises. It's not these massive complexes that take up away from the skyline and everything. I think density is a wide range. We have to think of housing as a continuum and a variety as well. And so density looks in a wide variety of ways from duplexes and triplexes to quadplexes to townhomes. And that's where going back to smart policies and zoning and stuff to encourage for that development in that middle third of where we are in the county so that we can have some more of that infill development in neighborhoods that already exist, where we can build housing that fits the character of the neighborhood, where you could drive by it and you almost have to do a double take of like, oh, is that a duplex right next to a few single family housing? That's really nice. Or you just drive by it and you don't even realize it.

Amber Stewart: [28:31] And so I think we need that wide variety. And when our codes and our policies support that, that's going to help speed along the process for that development. And to continue to also, because I think a lot of times people either view it as fully single family housing with your half acre lot or multifamily development. And we got to realize that there's a bunch in between in the middle that people are wanting to build and are trying to build. And that's been part of our fabric of America as well from the beginning of time, the different types of mixed-use developments. And we need to be bringing that back and being more intentional around that as well.

Katy Smith: [29:15] Thank you for drawing that picture in people's minds, because I do think people notice large multifamily, apartments being built, and that's what density equals to them. But like you say, there's so much other density that people don't notice, which is precisely the point. And if you haven't thought about this much, I would really call your attention to the North Main area behind the Greenville Main Library. There are several duplexes, garage apartments that folks might not notice. The neighborhood of Swansgate near Greenville Memorial Hospital is a dense neighborhood of duplexes. There's places in Pebble Creek. They are scattered all over. Downtown Greer has density in a way that is not a large apartment building, which has its place, too. So there's a lot of ways we can do it in Greenville County and have. Well, what are some things currently in the works that listeners might be interested in to address all of this and more?

Bryan Brown: [30:07] You know, the city of Greenville is a great partner of ours at the Greenville Housing Fund. And as an example, we've been talking about the county incentive policy. The city has recently adopted a housing impact analysis that allows them to now use part of the accommodations tax to support workforce housing. I think that's a big deal in our community, and it ties what we were just talking about related to the service economy and the tourism economy with a tax source to help support housing for that sector of our economy. That's one thing. Another thing is we live in a community that I believe, and I witness it every day, has so much care and compassion for those in the greatest need or those who are most vulnerable in our community. We have a new community initiative to address the needs of our unsheltered population, which some people refer to as homeless.

Bryan Brown: [31:10] And these are folks who are unhoused or unsheltered. And I am gratified that the community is coming together in a way to address the challenge we have with our unsheltered population. Because in our community, I believe this is completely solvable. It's a solvable challenge where we can really connect and engage with folks who are unsheltered and get them into shelter and into housing.

Bryan Brown: [31:44] And provide the necessary support to keep those folks safe, healthy, and value them as members of our community.

Amber Stewart: [31:53] To that point of just that initiative coming together, I think that just really shows how a lot of work has been done over the years to collaborate amongst the nonprofit sector. We're so grateful for you all at Greater Good Greenville. And part of our work at Greenville Housing Fund is we are the conveners of the Greenville Affordable Housing Coalition. And so that's bringing together all the partners who work in the affordable housing space. And it goes beyond just nonprofit developers, includes the private sector as well, government representation at all levels from our municipalities and county here in Greenville. And what's really great is we're all coming to the table together and addressing those housing needs because the housing needs look differently and everyone has their area of expertise, if it is providing the shelter for those who are unhoused or helping people just get into longer-term stability through affordable rental housing. And then hopefully, ideally, that.

Amber Stewart: [33:04] When they are ready one day that they can access that market rate or affordable homeownership opportunities. So it's really great that we can all come together and share our concerns and opportunities and celebrate together and really come around and find those areas where we can advocate around certain policies or resources.

Amber Stewart: [33:30] And so currently a couple of things we're working on as a coalition is we are continuing those partnerships at the city and the county level, requesting that they continue to put funding towards affordable housing in their budgets. And then as well as working on a few other state partnerships and initiatives through one of our great state partners with the South Carolina Association for Community Economic Development, like they got legislation introduced to reauthorize the Community Development Tax Credit, which is a great public-private partnership opportunity where it's a tax credit for private individuals to receive a state tax credit when they make a donation or investment into a certified community development organization or community development financial institution. And so it's these vetted organizations that are receiving money that they can go out and do great community development work, and then they get the tax benefits for making that investment. And so we're really hopeful that that bill, which is H-4164, will move along in the legislative process and pass and everything. And then we're also part of a wider network on helping with our eviction records of how do we clean up our eviction filings because eviction records, right?

Amber Stewart: [34:53] Are a barrier for people to access housing as well. And we realize that, yes, there are natural consequences to evictions and that needs to play out. We don't want to get rid of that, but there are some things we need to clean up of people's eviction records right now. If it's filed, it's on their record forever and it never goes away. And how about when we look at the fact of our credit scores, like that gets cleaned up every seven years. And so why, why are we?

Katy Smith: [35:24] Why should an eviction be treated differently?

Amber Stewart: [35:26] Yes, exactly. And so we are working to get legislation introduced there where we can have help clean up that process a little bit. So people have more opportunity to access housing as well.

Katy Smith: [35:39] Well, what I hear you saying is that it is complex and that it is really important we get it right in this community because we care and we want a vibrant economy and vibrant neighborhoods. And I'm really grateful to the work that you both are doing through Greenville Housing Fund for making those things more possible. Now, good news for listeners. Two of the things that Brian and Amber mentioned we'll have coming up on future episodes. We're going to bring in the folks from Greenville together to talk about this initiative to end homelessness or at least make it brief and rare in Greenville County. And we'll also talk about evictions in upcoming episodes, so stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, we appreciate all the work that you are doing, and thanks for joining us.

Bryan Brown: [36:18] Thank you for having us.

Amber Stewart: [36:19] Thank you.

Katy Smith: [36:21] Hi, Simple Civics Greenville County listeners, Nathaniel here. If you've made it this far, then we think you'll really love our newsletter. Sign up for bonus content, updates, and more right in your inbox. Look for the link in the description that says newsletter to sign up, or visit us at simplecivicsgreenvillecounty.org. Find the link in the menu that says newsletter and sign up there. We'll see you again next week.

Catherine Puckett: Simple Civics: Greenville County is a project of Greater Good Greenville. Greater Good Greenville was catalyzed by the merger of the Nonprofit Alliance and the Greenville Partnership for Philanthropy. You can learn more on our website at greatergoodgreenville.org.