Navigating Concerns in Greenville Schools: District Ombudsmen's Role

This episode of Simple Civics: Greenville County was made possible by support from First5SC.org. Parents of young children in Greenville can find free resources and services for child care, health screenings, and community support at First5SC.org. By answering a few questions on the website, you can quickly determine your eligibility for over 40 programs, apply online, and potentially access immediate assistance at no cost.

Have you ever had a concern or issue with your child's school but didn't know where to turn? In this episode, we sit down with Kate Malone and Jason Warren, the district ombudsmen for Greenville County Schools. As former principals, they bring a wealth of experience and unique skill sets to their roles in helping students, parents, and community members navigate concerns and resolve conflicts within the school system. From understanding the process of addressing issues to the importance of building relationships and being proactive, Kate and Jason share valuable insights into their work as ombudsmen. Tune in to learn more about this important resource for our community and how you can effectively advocate for your child's education.

Links:

"Need Help" Resource

Contact Kate or Jason

Transcript

Catherine Schumacher:
Well, I'm really happy to be here today with colleagues and friends, Kate Malone and Jason Warren from Greenville County Schools, the two ombudsmen for the district. Appreciate y'all being here today to tell us a little bit about what you do.

Kate Malone:
Thank you for having us.

Jason Warren:
Absolutely. Thank you.

Catherine Schumacher:
Well, let's start, you know, with the most important question. And I'm going to start with Kate, since she is the senior person at the table today. Kate, can you tell a little bit about what is an ombudsman, ombudsperson, and, you know, what is the purpose of having two of them at the district and the scope of the job?

Kate Malone:
Absolutely. So our titles are actually assistant to the superintendent and district ombudsman. So as the superintendent's designee, we respond to inquiries, we investigate concerns and provide the coordination of district resources and services for the purpose of resolving conflicts, facilitating conversations and communications among stakeholders, and providing information and direction. We assist families, we assist students, and community members in handling any issues, resolving complaints, concerns, and grievances. And we do that for a district of about 78,000 students.

Catherine Schumacher:
Both of you are former principals, which I think is a really interesting starting point for having these kinds of conversations. So, you know, what is the sort of journey to this? And Jason, you're newer in this seat, so why don't you, we'll start with you?

Jason Warren:
Sure. So for me, I was an assistant principal and then became a middle school principal. And then I've been a high school principal now for 10 years. I think it's probably a common rule just because we see so many things when you're the principal, you're working not just with students, not just with your staff, but you're also working with your community at large, even beyond your parents. And so when you have that many different stakeholders, there's going to be opportunities to resolve conflicts, to mediate issues, to gather resources, to help. And that tends to flow right into a position like this, where that's a lot of what we're doing. We're taking concerns and we're working across lines in the district and trying to help people solve problems. So you tend to be used to that as a principal. That's a big part of your job.

Catherine Schumacher:
Yeah. And Kate, did you have a similar road?

Kate Malone:
Absolutely. So I was a teacher in a middle school, then I became an instructional coach. So I've got a pretty good in-depth aknowledge of instruction and curriculum, but then I was a middle school administrator and then a middle school principal for about a decade in the district before I moved to this position. And as Jason said, we were talking earlier today, you know, we're like farmers. We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. And so we have the experience to kind of be able to deal not only with policy and practice, but also the people side of things. And that is really a unique experience that most people who have not led an organization as big as a school would not be able to step into this role and have the knowledge of both the curriculum and policy and practice, and then also the people skills to navigate the difficult conversations.

Catherine Schumacher:
Right. I think that's a really– the sort of the people skills part of it, because principals are so uniquely situated, in between so many different groups of people. From your experience as principals, talk a little bit about what those particular skill sets are that you've been able to bring to this role.

Jason Warren:
I think for me, lots of times as principals, we tend to meet a stakeholder when a situation that hasn't gone well at the school level and some kind of interaction, whether that's with a teacher or perhaps with a bus. It could be a host of reasons. And then so when they are coming to you, they're dissatisfied, they're unsure of how to proceed, they're hoping for some resolution to a matter. And as a principal, hearing those concerns, de-escalating the situation, getting all the parties who need to be at the table to come up with the best solution for a child or for the circumstance is a skill that you tend to develop over time. And you're kind of uniquely positioned in a building to do that. What we do now, that translates directly because it's usually where they're unsure of where in a building they can come with a solution or maybe one that's actually not directly related to a building. And so they're very unsure sure with a big district like ours, where do I navigate to get some relief or some help with this? And so you sort of develop those skills to hear not just what they're saying, but trying to understand what do they need to actually help with that problem. And it may end up going in a direction completely different than what they expect, but you're actually able to help them because you have an understanding of the different parts of the puzzle and who needs to be at the table to come to the right resolution.

Catherine Schumacher:
Yeah. It's like systems navigation.

Kate Malone:
Yeah, absolutely.

Catherine Schumacher:
Kate, what surprised you? I mean, I think you've been in this role for two years?

Kate Malone:
Yeah, this is my second year now. And I would say... A couple of things, but the most important, I think, is the knowledge of humanity and maybe psychology and social-emotional skills that you need to have and the amount of time I just spend helping adults navigate their own emotional needs. Because as Jason mentioned, often people call or bring something to us and they have one resolution in mind, but it really often stems from a need that's not being met. They're embarrassed or they're hurt or they feel let down or they're angry. But a lot of times even anger is really about something else. I'm scared my kid's going to get hurt or I'm scared this is going to go on their record for their life or a lot of times it starts in fear. And so what I've learned is sometimes if you can figure out what is it that we're really upset about or what is it that we're really afraid of and kind of talk through the reality of that and whether it is a rational fear or something that's probably not going to turn out that way. And that often helps people come down to, okay, what is it that we need to do to move forward? So to me, I think the surprising part was I knew we were going to have to find a path forward. It was, there's a lot of time spent helping people realize why they feel the way they feel so that they can communicate better about what their real issue is. And then we can find a real solution to their problem and action steps that not only make them feel better, but actually make a difference in a future interaction.

Kate Malone:
And that's a big part of what we do. And I think, you know, Jason was talking earlier about skills that we have. I think the human part of it can not be discounted, being able to really empathize with people and to see them as people, even when they're angry and to not take it personally. You know, people often apologize to me when they're on the phone and I say, like, that's okay. I know you're mad. I know you're angry, but I also know that it's not directed at me personally, that you just need to voice some of these things so we can work through it and figure out what's next. So we understand that.

Catherine Schumacher:
I wrote down de-escalation because I think whenever you're in a leadership position, that's such an important skill to have is to sort of synthesize what you're hearing and where it's really coming from. And then, you know, how do you navigate that and put people in the right place? So the next question would be, sort of process. You know, this is a contentious time. And I think one of the, you know, one of the purposes of these, the podcasts and all of this is to sort of talk to people about when you have questions, when you have things you're curious about. How do you work things through the process? And so from your perspective, what is the best way for folks to address when they're concerned about something or something, you know, when something comes up like this?

Kate Malone:
Yeah, absolutely. So there are actually two really important resources for people to kind of to remember that they can access pretty quickly. One is there's a page on our district website called Need Help. And you can just type in the search bar, Need Help. And it'll take you to a little page. It has four different options, kind of what is the issue that you're dealing with and who should you call? And so that's something that somebody could even bookmark for themselves to kind of be a touch point to be like, okay, this is my problem today, or this is the concern I have, which direction should I go? I had a lady call me yesterday, and I've dealt with her with another issue. And the one she called me about was not really something she needed me for, but she said on the phone, I just didn't know who to call. And I knew you'd tell me.

Catherine Schumacher:
Which is about relationships.

Kate Malone:
Exactly. But if she'd known that there was a page that told her, if you need help, here's where you go, she might've been able to get her answer even faster. So that's a good resource for folks if they're kind of struggling to pinpoint what's the next step. But then also everybody who's in the Greenville County school system gets one of these connected parent newsletters every summer, gets mailed to your house.

Catherine Schumacher:
It should be coming soon.

Kate Malone:
In a mailbox coming to you. So that actually contains a little blurb about how to address your concern and issue. And everybody loves a good infographic. There's an infographic in there. And it talks about first going to the person that either made the decision or had the action or the incident that caused the issue or concern to begin with. And so if it's with a teacher, if it's with a staff member of the building, going and having a conversation with them about what you didn't like about it or what your concerns are. And that's sort of the first step. From there, if you're unable to resolve your concern or conflict with that person, going to an administrator in the building, and certainly to the principal in the building before going outside the building. Oftentimes, people come to the ombudsman's office, and we wind up sending them back to the building to talk to the principal because the principal, in almost all of our district policies, is responsible for the decisions inside the building and is the direct supervisor for the staff that's located in that building. And so they are often the correct person to take the most direct action and who has the most information about the situation firsthand to be able to intervene. So it's really that. Starting with the person that you have the issue with and having a good conversation about what the issue might be and how you might be able to reach a resolution. If you're not able to reach a resolution there, moving on to that administrator and school principal, and then of course if you're still unable to reach a resolution contacting the ombudsman's office and that's what we would work with.

Catherine Schumacher:
So how do you all decide who takes what issue you know I'd like… Jason where do you is again new kid on the block like you've just started in this role…

Kate Malone:
I just give all the hard stuff.

Catherine Schumacher:
Nice.That's a great solution.But I'm curious, like, because obviously you're two different people with different experiences and different skill sets. And so how do you work as a team to think through that? Or have you not figured all of that out yet?

Jason Warren:
So we're divided up with primary contacts for the county. We kind of split the county in half.

Catherine Schumacher:
I see. So you have schools that are kind of your schools.

Jason Warren:
And then we work really with a broad team in the district office, Kate and I being working very closely together because we can provide sounding boards or sometimes there's research involved when a parent is trying to navigate a situation. It might be complicated for us as well. Where's the best way to send them or direct them? Which policies are in play? And so it's nice to have each other to work on those things. But then we also work with our district office and the different departments at large because sometimes it may be an academic concern, a curriculum concern. And that's one of our duties is it may be something that we're going to research with academics where that policy falls, where that practice comes from. We may be going to transportation so that we're not always… we're trying to avoid sending parents to maybe multiple areas or a school to multiple areas when we sometimes can provide that service for them where we're coordinating discussions among different people, especially for a very complex issue to come back and say, okay, here's why, here's what we found, and here's your best path forward to resolve that in your favor.

Catherine Schumacher:
I think it's so interesting to figure out when you have a complex issue, because public education is a complex place, right? And you have all of these different policies coming from different places. And I think that's something that I have learned a lot about is what policy from whom is making this work this way? And I think that's one of the challenges for you all to sort of keep up with that because it's constantly changing. So for folks listening to this podcast, you know, other than making sure we read our mail– If we're a parent in Greenville County schools that we read our, you know, we know how to get into backpack and all those sorts of things. How else can we effectively advocate for our children in different settings? Like what is, what is the best approach aside from just sort of following the pathways?

Kate Malone:
The first thing that comes to mind for me is to be proactively involved with your child's school and to get to know the staff and find your people in that building before there's an issue.

Kate Malone:
I'm a parent in the district, Jason is as well. And one of the things that we do is we know the people who are working with our student and we've built relationships with them. So when there is a problem, we feel very comfortable going to them and saying, hey, I wasn't really comfortable about this or my child came home and said this, can we talk about it a little bit? And once you've established that relationship, as you said before, it's all about relationships. It's a people business, right? And so being able to talk through those things is a lot easier when you have built that foundation of trust. So talking to your child's teacher about good things, talking early, giving them information about things that you're worried about, you don't have to keep that to yourself. And really, like I said, being proactive about your relationship so that you do feel comfortable and safe having those open conversations. But then I think once there is an issue, one of the things that I think is a stumbling block for people trying to resolve an issue is they often, by the time they maybe talk to us, have one solution in mind. And so if you don't do this, you haven't solved my problem. And as you pointed out, there are a lot of policies, laws, all different kinds of things that govern what we are allowed to do. And sometimes the solution they're seeking isn't the one we can provide, but we can provide something else that is a meaningful step towards rebuilding that trust and towards resolving the problem. So approaching it in a way that allows you to share the information and the facts about why you feel the way that you feel and then to be open to possible solutions that can get you moving forward.

Catherine Schumacher:
I think that's really helpful. It's the largest district in the state, you know, thousands and thousands of students and teachers and families and all of the things. So I think we're very lucky to have invested resources in folks like you to just support that communication and understanding and being thoughtful and all of that. So I appreciate you all being available. I appreciate y'all joining us today for this conversation. Anything else you want to add?

Kate Malone:
Well, to your point just now, it made me think that the value and the importance to our district and to our superintendent in ensuring that stakeholders are heard and that the size of our district doesn't affect their ability to feel that they can reach someone to help them with their concerns. And one of the chief priorities in our budget concerns over the years has always been keeping our administrative costs very low. So the fact that we have been able to continue to do that, but also provide meaningful service to people, I think is really important and demonstrates not only the commitmaent to our stakeholders in terms of their service, but also to, you know, being good stewards of the resources that we're given.

Catherine Schumacher:
Absolutely. And transparency about it too, and having places where you can go to have those conversations.

Kate Malone:
Absolutely.

Catherine Schumacher:
Well, thank you. Thank you both of you for joining us today and for this conversation. And I hope you have a fantastic school year. The beginning of school is just right around the corner.

Jason Warren:
Right around the corner.

Catherine Schumacher:
All right. Well, thank you.

Jason Warren:
Thank you.

Kate Malone:
Absolutely. Have a good one.

Catherine Puckett: Simple Civics: Greenville County is a project of Greater Good Greenville. Greater Good Greenville was catalyzed by the merger of the Nonprofit Alliance and the Greenville Partnership for Philanthropy. You can learn more on our website at greatergoodgreenville.org.