Simple Civics: 200 Episodes of Equipping Civic Engagement in Greenville County

Celebrate 200 episodes of Simple Civics: Greenville County! This milestone episode brings together a diverse array of past guests, community leaders, and listeners to highlight the transformative and vital power of civic engagement in our community. Join us as we explore the essential role local government, non-profits, and passionate citizens play in shaping Greenville County’s future, offering solutions to critical changes, and celebrating collective victories. Learn how your voice truly matters in local decision-making and how technology is empowering greater civic participation.

In this exciting special episode, hear updates on key initiatives and policies, and discover actionable pathways to get involved. From revitalizing beloved green spaces like the Swamp Rabbit Trail to advancing critical social policies on evictions and foster care, our guests share inspiring stories of community impact and the tangible results of dedicated civic action. We delve into topics such as the new development code, racial displacement studies, the Reedy River cleanup, and innovative programs for adults with disabilities. This episode underscores the importance of staying informed and actively participating to make Greenville County an even greater place to live.

Transcript

Katy Smith: This is our 200th episode of Simple Civics: Greenville County, and today will be a little bit different, everyone. I’m Katy Smith with Greater Good Greenville, and on this episode, we will feature a variety of guests from our Simple Civics Live when we celebrated this episode with past guests, with listeners, and with lots of community partners. You will hear today from our top three ranked episodes guests: Shannon Lavrin, city manager of the city of Greenville; Ken Kolb, professor of sociology at Furman University; and Frank Mansbach, founder of Bike Walk Greenville on some of our community’s gems and policies.

Katy Smith: You’ll hear from previous guests about updates since they’ve been on and just comments from listeners and elected officials about why civic engagement is important to them. We are grateful to each of them for joining us to celebrate this milestone, but we are especially grateful to you for being listeners, for being involved in our community, and being what makes Greenville County great.

Katy Smith: Frank, you and Ty Houck with Greenville County Rec joined us in April 2022 for episode number 78 on revitalizing the Swamp Rabbit Trail. And of course, we all know that the Swamp Rabbit Trail is a triumph of how a community can come together with public private partnerships and how folks can discover the joy of getting around town powered by their own feet, or I guess hand pedals if they use that kind of bike. So you have been one of the foremost champions of biking and walking in this community, including founding Bike Walk Greenville. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about how you have seen bike and pedestrian access change in Greenville County and what you’re optimistic about in the next couple of years.

Frank: Well, thanks, Katy. You know, in general, the city of Greenville and Greenville County have embraced the Swamp Rabbit Trail. And obviously, things we talked about on that podcast, the economic engine of the Swamp Rabbit Trail, the success of the Swamp Rabbit Cafe, all the development going up to Hampton Avenue, it would not have happened without the trail. So it’s been a huge thing.

Frank: And if you look what’s happening now, yesterday, the lead story, the Post and Courier was about the trail expansions to Simpsonville and Fountain Inn. And what’s happened since we last talked is Upstate Greenways and Trails Alliance that Nathan Galbreath created under Matt Fledgy have done amazing work in getting grants and working with the local municipalities and getting easements. They got some earmarks from Bannister a few years ago. So they got some money to make things happen. You know, under Bike Walk Greenville was an advocate, we didn’t have the money to do things.

Frank: So, you know, you look what’s happening, the communities all demand expansion of the trail and it’s happening. So, you know, the only problem is it takes a long time to build infrastructure. You know, it’s decades, not years. But in general, I would I am optimistic about the growth. And then if we look at the city of Greenville, they are so aligned. The city council is putting money into things. They got money to build the bridge over Abel Boulevard for the Swamp Rabbit Trail to go out to CU-ICAR.

Frank: So things are really happening and we have elected officials in some municipalities that are behind us. So I’m basically very optimistic of the future.

Katy Smith: We did recently have a victory for biking and walking on County Council as they did approve after some serious consideration, some funding for a really outstanding federal matching grant, right?

Frank: Yeah, we actually advocated with that. It was defeated ridiculously by one of the members and we got them to reconsider. I contacted Benton and I contacted Liz Seaman who represents me, and they got a vote to reconsider and it got passed. So they were blocking a grant to GPATS, which was a has federal money behind it. It made no sense. It cost the county nothing. And they didn’t understand that. And you have to educate some of the newer elected officials.

Frank: You know, as I as you know, teaching the Furman OLLI course, I have advocated for them to all subscribe to your podcast. And a number of them, we did the last week, we put hands up about what we were doing and a lot of hands went up that they were now subscribing to this podcast. And it’s a great tool for people, for citizens that want to get engaged with local government. So kudos.

Katy Smith: Well, we are only able to do it because of folks like you. So thanks, Frank, for all that you do.

Lynn Ballard: I’m Lynn Ballard. I’m a retired Greenville County Councilman. And civic engagement is so important. One of the most frustrating things as an elected official that I dealt with is the lack of understanding by so many people of how government works.

Lynn Ballard: I remember many years ago, I was the chairman of the environmental group at Chamber of Commerce. And once a year, we would have a meeting with the legislators. And at the time, David Wilkins was speaker of the house. And David would always speak and one thing he would always say, get to know your representatives. Call them up, take them for coffee, go have lunch with them. They need to know who you are and you need to know them before you need them.

Lynn Ballard: And if people would get more involved in government, I believe the government would run a lot smoother than it does now.

Katy Smith: I’m so glad to be joined by Ken Kolb, who’s professor and chair of sociology at Furman University. So listeners, you have heard Ken twice on Simple Civics: Greenville County. He’s top five episode posted in January of 2023, which was episode 65, racial displacement in Greenville, South Carolina, historic and current population shifts in the city of Greenville and the surrounding Greenville County. So he was here with Meliah Bowers Jefferson with the Jolly Foundation and Mike Winski, also from Furman, talking about this data.

Katy Smith: And I really want to pull the lens way back. So Ken, you’ve done studies on racial displacement as we know, and retail inequality, and it really shows us how there can be hyperlocal data for elected officials and government staff to use, but that’s not always available. And then we also have academics who don’t usually wander into local policy in a really practical way like you have. I think that’s unusual. Is it unusual and kind of what do you see in the field?

Ken Kolb: Well, first, thanks for having me. And 200 episodes is like a great accomplishment. I try to do like one LinkedIn post every two weeks and it’s pretty exhausting. So a lot of content, congratulations. But yeah, this is this is a like it’s just phase in my career. I’ve done like the publishing on the academic side, like peer reviewed research articles, books, stuff like that. And it’s very rewarding, but at this point, I’d really want to have some influence or at least kind of push the needle a little bit in small local policy debates.

Ken Kolb: And so the takeaway from kind of all my projects is that like some pretty simple statistics can help you weave together a very powerful narrative about where things were, how they are now and in what direction they’re going. And so really the goal is to present local data that’s publicly accessible, that’s not too intimidating, that residents and stakeholders can use to base policy decisions on.

Ken Kolb: And also just to package it in a way that people can handle. And so that’s kind of the beauty of podcasts is, you know, you can listen to it on your own time. It’s in small manageable chunks. We’re the same way. I mean, every project I’ve done since that podcast has been basically a dynamic website. And so we just try not to hide the big story in a really lengthy PDF or behind some very opaque tables. We’re really trying to get it, you know, the goal is information that can help you make decisions that you can read and share on your phone. Like that’s kind of where we’re going now. And so that’s what I’ve been trying to do and these podcasts are really a great vehicle to help me do it.

Katy Smith: You know, I had not really thought about the way technology is empowering people to be more civically engaged, both from story maps and ArcGIS and websites being available. And that we can do a podcast thanks to technical support from Podcast Studio X. But these are things that people are very busy and wouldn’t naturally want to engage in. Like how does county council work? How do I advocate or, you know, what’s the deal with why my neighborhood is changing? That technology is available to us both. It does make it easier for people to engage in local government.

Ken Kolb: I mean, and the beauty of it is, I mean, when it’s on your phone, it literally is the information at your fingertips. And so when you need these statistics is really when you’re sitting at the county council meeting and you’re ready to waiting to do some public comment, you know, or if you just happen to have a chance meeting with a city council person, to be able to pull up on your phone and just kind of like zoom to a map and see like, well, on this heat map, it says that this is what’s going on.

Ken Kolb: Neighborhood residents know what’s going on at the street level. They have that hunch, they have that clear sense of what is happening. They just need the data to transform that opinion into an argument. And so that’s really kind of what these publicly available data projects do and podcasts do as well.

Katy Smith: That’s great. Well, Ken, thanks for all that you do and thanks so much for joining us this morning.

Katy Smith: So, Diane Smock was on one of our other most popular episodes, where there’s a will, there’s a way, which is helping folks know why getting a will in South Carolina is important. And we think it was one of the most popular, not just because it’s great, but because we have newcomers coming to the state that need to learn about getting a will here. So Diane, as you think about newcomers coming to Greenville County, I wonder what you would say to them about how to get involved and why it’s important.

Diane Smock: Well, this is a well-timed question for me right now because I’m happy to report that my daughter and her family just moved to Greenville. Of course, she grew up here, but her husband did not and they brought their three children. And my dear son-in-law has asked me that very question. They’ve been here two weeks and he’s already saying, Diane, you’re involved in a lot of things. How do I get involved? And I said, have I got a list for you?

Diane Smock: One of the many great things about the Greenville community is we have represented by all of you here, we have so many nonprofits and other agencies working to better the community and better the lives of our fellow citizens. And it’s just a matter, it does take a little digging, I think at first, but thanks to the work of Greater Good Greenville, we’re about to present an easier option for that and maybe I shouldn’t say any more about that yet, but there’ll be a nonprofit directory online, which makes it much easier to search whatever you’re interested in.

Diane Smock: If you want to work outside with the trees, there are there’s Trees Upstate and there’s the parks. If you want to work with education, there’s PEP. If you want to work with providing food to folks who don’t have enough, there’s Feed and Seed. There’s so many opportunities here and all of these opportunities will soon be easily available. But right now, it does take a little bit of digging, but they’re all right there and I think a little bit of research will yield huge results. And as I said, Greenville is so welcoming to newcomers and to new volunteers. You’ll soon see my son-in-law on your list very soon.

Katy Smith: I love it. Well, you have a lot of experience helping people get involved, whether they’re brand new to the community or here for a long time. And that’s one of the things that I love about this podcast that we have had 200 episodes is really just uplifting decades, I mean, probably centuries of work when you aggregate all the people who have come on here. It is all of you who have come by today and all of you have come on the podcast that are kind of the shepherds for people to get involved. And Diane, you’re one of the preeminent, so thanks for all that you’ve done.

Alex Reynolds: Well, hey, I’m Alex Reynolds. This is my fourth time, I think. So I’m really going for that punch card if y’all get a program started, you know, just let me know. I’ll come get mine retroactively punched. I have been involved in the community for about the past 15 years and I am just very thankful for the way that yes, while we talk a lot about government things, just the full spectrum of being involved in civic life.

Alex Reynolds: I think when we let any one institution, whether that’s government or whatever, be the whole of our lives, I think it really narrows the way we view the world. And so what I really appreciate about simple civics is the way that you bring the full spectrum of different ways that people can get involved in the community. Yes, government, obviously, I think is important, but if it’s nonprofit life, whether it’s a neighborhood association, whether it’s advocating to your state legislator because you think you need better trash service or whatever it is, right?

Alex Reynolds: I just am very thankful for the way simple civics brings all the different aspects of getting involved locally to people. So thank you all so much for everything you do.

Katy Smith: Shannon Lavrin is with us. She is city manager for the city of Greenville and she joined us for one of our most popular simple civics episodes in February of 2023 on exploring the new development code. And since that time, the code has passed. We’ve had a moment to test it out. You’ve moved into the new role to you of city manager. I’d love to hear from you, how has the code worked? Has it done what we all hoped it would? Where has it not met what we hoped for and what’s next for it?

Shannon Lavrin: Well, the code has been, I think a great tool for us as we implement Greenville 2040. And I think some of the positive things that we’ve seen with the code is we’ve seen construction of accessory dwelling units, which I think that our community really wanted us to embrace back in 2023. We’ve seen density being built where we want to see density built, where we have the infrastructure to support that density. And we’re seeing the increase of, I think, just trying to really look at how we’re doing adaptive reuse for our commercial projects here within the city.

Shannon Lavrin: Some things that I think that we still want to see in the code is, is the development bonus working? So are we going to see developments really use the development bonus to incorporate additional affordable housing into those projects and open space. We do think the open space is a little more attractive and so we want to make sure that the affordable housing component also is as attractive to our development community. So that’s something that we’re still waiting to see.

Shannon Lavrin: On that, we’ve only had a couple of projects so far use it, but we’ve also seen a change in development patterns over the last couple of years and not as many multi-family projects come before us. So until we see more multi-family projects come before us, I’m not sure we’ll really know if that section of the code is working the way we wanted it to work. One of the things that we’ve also made some changes on as we’ve worked through the code is looking at some of the commercial standards to encourage those adaptive reuses that we want to see.

Shannon Lavrin: So when I talk about adaptive reuse, what I’m talking about is taking commercial projects that are existing that maybe have been abandoned or the buildings are no longer being utilized and using those same buildings to go and to and bring a new life into them instead of just scraping and replacing. And so a great example of that is the Po West development over in West Greenville or the Borden building on Washington Street. And so we want to make sure that the code is encouraging those adaptive reuses and not encouraging a scrape and replace of the property. So we’ve made some changes on that.

Shannon Lavrin: One thing that is exciting about the upcoming code change that will be going to planning commission in August, if I can give a little shout out for them is that we are looking at loosening some of the standards related to accessory dwelling units so that we can see those continue to be built. So we’re excited about that. And we’re also looking at implementing a fee in lieu of program for sidewalks where in locations where sidewalk is not feasible for whatever reason, that the developer would have an option to pay into the fee in lieu of sidewalk program where we can actually then take that money and use it somewhere else where we need to expand our sidewalk network.

Katy Smith: That is great. It has been exciting in just a short time to see some of the things that I understood conceptually in the code, like that idea of density where appropriate because you heard, we all heard loud and clear that people did not want density in their neighborhood. So on the edges though, where it’s already a main thoroughfare, there can be more density, which creates spaces for the newcomers to live while preserving that character. It’s neat to see things actually being built and to see the interior of neighborhoods stay the same.

Shannon Lavrin: That’s right. And that was really one of the major goals of the code was to make sure that density is going where density is most appropriate. And for us as planners, because I will always be a city planner before I’m a city manager. We love that. is that you need the infrastructure in place to support that density. So we want to encourage that density where the infrastructure is in place for that to occur instead of pushing it to areas where that where the infrastructure is not there and can’t handle that level of density.

Shannon Lavrin: One other thing that I really have liked seeing and I would want to encourage anyone who’s listening to this to stay engaged in more is that the project preview meetings have been a great addition to our the way that we are working through the code and how we are doing planning in the city of Greenville. So we take a lot of projects to the project preview meetings, whether they have to go before a board or commission or not. And it is a it is a great way for our community to stay engaged and to know what’s happening all over the community, not just necessarily in one neighborhood, but they can know everything that’s happening in the city of Greenville.

Shannon Lavrin: That meeting happens every fourth Tuesday at Unity Park from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. And so I would just encourage people to we have it’s on the planning department’s web page. We have a new website at the city that we hope will make it easier for people to navigate to know how to stay engaged with their government. But I would really encourage people to stop by those PPMs. They’re a drop in, so you can come in anytime between 4:00 and 6:00 and all of the projects have individual stations and so you can learn about the projects before it ever goes before an historic review board, a design review board, the board of zoning appeals, planning commission, but you can also learn of other projects that the city may be working on.

Shannon Lavrin: We put our road projects in there, we do our zoning, anything that we’re working on, we also take to the project preview meetings. So if I could put a plug in for that, I would really encourage our community to stay engaged on that and just they’re welcome anytime every month to come by and see what we’re doing.

Katy Smith: That’s outstanding. Okay, I had no idea that was happening and I consider myself a civically engaged person. That is so exciting because I do feel like the first step people often make into civic engagement is related to something that’s being built in their community, in their neighborhood. They’re excited about it, they’re worried about it. So what a great entree into getting engaged by just dropping in at Unity Park to see what’s coming up.

Shannon Lavrin: And I think that it goes towards the what we’re trying to do as a staff to make sure that we are being as transparent as possible about what is happening within the city. And so my goal would be to make sure that people know about that meeting as much as possible. And even if they can’t attend, we post the slideshow one week before the meeting on our planning department’s website so that you can see all of the projects that are going to be presented.

Shannon Lavrin: So that way, if you can’t attend, you at least know you see the same thing that you would see in public. The benefit of attending if it fits for your schedule is that you have an opportunity to talk with the developer at each station and ask specific questions related to the project so that some people don’t always feel comfortable having to do that in a public hearing format. And so this gives them an opportunity to have a one-on-one conversation with the development team at Unity Park.

Katy Smith: And I would imagine then it can prevent hostility because people have information and they’ve been able to ask questions and then no confrontational atmosphere is needed in a public hearing.

Shannon Lavrin: And that’s one thing that I’ve enjoyed about the new code is that we’ve only had 13 rezoning requests in the two years we’ve adopted the new code. And the rezonings have been, we haven’t really had a controversial one yet since the re-adopted the new code. And I think that a lot of that goes to one, we wrote a by right code that is more form-based code that gives a lot of predictability to what should occur at the properties and when as properties are developing.

Shannon Lavrin: But we with adding the PPM to that and allowing people to have a more one-on-one conversation with either staff or the development team, I think really helps to bring down that that level of frustration sometimes and a lot of it times it’s just because people don’t have the information. That’s, you know, and if we can help provide people as much information as possible, then we want to we want to do that.

Katy Smith: That’s outstanding. Well, Shannon, thanks so much for all you do at the city and I love that your planner’s heart is still there in your city manager role. And thanks for coming on the podcast.

Shannon Lavrin: Thank you so much for having me today. I really appreciate the invitation.

Katy Smith: Well, I’m very pleased that Tyler Rex is with us, who appeared on the podcast as executive director of Thrive Upstate. And Thrive Upstate does a bunch of amazing things that you need to check out. One of them is a program called Drumming Up Awareness that they really invigorate the Peace Center Plaza and not only drum up awareness, but just make downtown a continually special place to be. Tyler, tell us about that program.

Tyler Rex: So, we built what we think is probably the only studio, music studio specifically dedicated for adults with intellectual or developmental disabilities. We call it Studio 1700. It’s on our campus at 1700 Ridge Road. And within that program, adults who have either an intellectual or developmental disability or a head and spinal cord or traumatic brain injury come to what is truly a remarkable percussion program where they are learning to drum with various drumming instruments from full drum kits to African drums, to congas, to bongos.

Tyler Rex: And these individuals love to perform. And so March is national disability awareness month and we take that opportunity for our individuals to drum up awareness and it’s traditionally held at the Peace Center Plaza as you mentioned. And it’s an opportunity for individuals to give back to the community in a way that is just it’s enriching and inspiring and it’s literally impossible to come away from that program, that performance and not feel just tremendously inspired about the potential of everyone in our community.

Katy Smith: And what I love in terms of civics it represents, it just shows what a really truly inclusive community is. It shows the way innovation can happen between the nonprofit sector and government dollars, which largely helps thrive upstate succeed and just volunteers and employees of nonprofits getting together to just make our community great. It’s a wonderful program and I appreciate your leadership.

Tyler Rex: Well, thank you. and a couple of weeks ago, the same individuals who performed at Peace Center Plaza were invited to come to the TD Bank headquarters right off Interstate 85, that large campus that they have. They were conducting their employee appreciation day with about 1,200 of their employees outside their campus and our individuals performed for them. So it was just another great opportunity to give back to the community and to help Greenville just be a remarkable place to be.

Tyler Rex: And speaking of which, congratulations to you and your team on 200 episodes. You’re every bit contributing to the vibrancy of our community. So congratulations.

Katy Smith: Thanks, Tyler. It takes all of us and we appreciate you being here.

Tyler Rex: Yep. Thank you.

Catherine Schumacher: Hi, well, I’m Catherine Schumacher. I’m the president and CEO of Public Education Partners Greenville County and this is so exciting, Katy. Congratulations and Nathaniel, congratulations on 200 episodes. You know, at PEP, what we really want people to do is pay attention. And so this is such a great way for folks to kind of dip in and learn about things they might not know about. And you know, I consider myself a fairly educated consumer of civic life here in Greenville and I can’t say how many times I’ve been able to tune into simple civics and learn about something that is new to me and that is relevant to the work that I do leading public education partners.

Catherine Schumacher: And so I would just encourage folks to keep listening and I know that, you know, we’ve got some exciting partnerships and things coming up and I think it’s just really important to do everything that you can to learn about things you might not know about because I think we assume and I think Lynn just made a great point. You assume that you know how things work and it’s always so helpful to actually get to the facts behind those assumptions and to be open and curious. And I think that’s another great part of these podcasts is the opportunity to hear from all sorts of different voices and people and perspectives.

Catherine Schumacher: And that’s what makes Greenville such an incredible community. And I think the more that we do in the nonprofit community, in the government community to sort of curate and cultivate that curiosity is a really valuable investment in the world that we live in and the world that we’re trying to build here in Greenville because it is such an amazing place and people are coming here all the time. And I think those of us who are in these positions where we have a voice, how can we use that voice to encourage those folks to pay attention, to get involved and to not just drop in and enjoy all the great things that we’re building here, but to really be part of problem solving and addressing the challenges that arise and just kind of getting to know our neighbors. And so I think that’s just such an important part of paying attention and using your voice. So I just want to thank you all for doing that.

Katy Smith: Tina Belge is here with Catalyst Community Consulting and Tina was on just a few weeks ago to talk about evictions in South Carolina along with Mario Brown with affordable upstate. And I would love to hear some updates on how that work related to eviction policy is coming and what role civic engagement may have played, wink wink.

Tina Belge: Yes, thanks for having me back and this is a great celebration. So congrats on 200 episodes. There have been developments since we were on the pod. So just shortly after that aired, there are some advocacy groups that came together both from state agencies, South Carolina ACLU. We had kind of a housing justice group with different folks, different nonprofits from across the state to work on specifically eviction, tenant rights and those issues.

Tina Belge: We’ve been crafting along with Appleseed some language around eviction prevention or really really dealing with the aftermath actually. So what’s happening after someone’s evicted. And I couldn’t say it on the pod because it wasn’t out yet, but there was a bill that dropped just shortly after that.

Tina Belge: Yes. So this bill, 4270, it is in the house and it’s bipartisan supported. It is making its way hopefully through this next session. It essentially takes an eviction from having been on someone’s record for life. We talked about it. I think we referred to it as a tattoo on the pod. Yep. And it goes down to six years.

Tina Belge: Oh my gosh. So it’s great progress, right? And there was a lot of conversations with realtors association and different folks, you know, across the state to get to that point, a lot of back and forth. But that’s what’s been landed at and you know, it could be very life-changing for some folks. The other part of the bill is that if you are a tenant who is, you know, quote unquote kind of winning the case and you’ve been relieved of that that case, you can file for an expungement right then and there.

Tina Belge: Oh my gosh. So that would be a huge win as well. And that was really because of all these different advocacy groups and then there was Gold Justice group within Greenville County was pushing a lot for that as well as soon as it dropped. And so I know that brought on some more signers and some behind the scenes conversations. So advocacy, civic engagement makes a huge difference.

Katy Smith: I love it. And as you pointed out, it’s a bipartisan bill. It’s really a bipartisan effort because evictions aren’t good for anybody. I mean, it’s certainly terrible for a tenant, but it’s a hassle for landlords as you and Mario pointed out. It’s expensive. So everyone wants a solution to it and thanks to all the advocates who’ve put one forth that we can get behind.

Tina Belge: Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for joining us, Tina.

Tina Belge: Thanks for having me.

Katy Smith: Alan Mitchell is here who represents District 23 on Greenville County Council. And Alan and I have known each other a long time because in a previous nonprofit where I served, Alan was on the board. So you’ve really put yourself out there as neighborhood Association president, nonprofit board member, volunteer to make a better community. And you raised your hand to serve in elected office. You’re in your first term, nearing the end of your first term. I’m wondering what you’ve learned about civics or what your observations are about civics.

Alan Mitchell: My observations basically is that we don’t have enough civic engagement. And I think one of the reasons is is years ago, a decision was made to take civics out of the education curriculum in the school system. When I was in the eighth grade at Sterling High School, I had Mr. Smith as my civics teacher and I learned so much about being a good citizen from Mr. Smith.

Alan Mitchell: We learned about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, we learned all about how to just follow the rules, follow the laws, how to engage with city officials, county officials, state and national representatives. I don’t see that flourishing today. I mean, it’s still here, but I don’t see it flourishing. And I think that that’s probably what we need to get more of brought back. I don’t know if they’ll introduce it into the curriculum again, but every time I go to some engagement, I try to remind people that this is your country, this is your city, your county, your neighborhood.

Alan Mitchell: You need to take ownership. And in order to take good ownership, you need to know what the rules are. If you’re a child and you’re in a shopping center and you don’t know any better and you’re riding your bike on the sidewalk in the shopping center, that’s a no-no. But if you don’t know that, then you can get in trouble for it. But if you learn the rules and know, well, I can ride my bike in the parking lot or I can ride my bike in the bike lane and not on the sidewalk, then you become a better citizen.

Alan Mitchell: So there are all kinds of little things that we can learn, you know, not just about being a good citizen, about knowing the rules and also being safer. You know, if you know as a broad example, why and how the interstate travel system, highway system was put together, then you understand which highways run north south, which highways run east west, just by the numbers, which highways circle around the cities, which highways are spurs in and out of the city and how that difference from the US system.

Alan Mitchell: All of that kind of stuff is taught in civics. And I encourage people to come to our meetings at County Council, to go to city council meetings, to your town hall meeting wherever you live because the more you are engaged, the more you learn, the more you can actually influence what happens in your area and in your neighborhood. So that’s what I wanted to say this morning.

Katy Smith: Well, Alan, I, of course, ditto what you said and I’m glad that if you miss the civics in your in your school time, either because it wasn’t in your curriculum or it just didn’t feel relevant to you. That’s why we’re all here, not just Simple Civics: Greenville County, but all of the folks that we’ve had on who want to create paths for you to get engaged. So thank you for being a great playing that role on County Council so beautifully.

Alan Mitchell: I will continue to play that role.

Meliah Bowers Jefferson: Hi, I’m Meliah Bowers Jefferson with the Jolly Foundation and I believe that civic engagement really is the core of who we are as citizens in this community. And in order to be good citizens, I think it’s important for us to be engaged not just in the fun things that happen in our community, but also the policy making, the work that goes to make our community a great place to live. And civic engagement really is the backbone of that.

Katy Smith: I am here with Susan Crooks, who’s founder of Walt’s Waltz, a wonderful nonprofit here in town. And Susan, you are someone whose personal passion has driven an incredible organization. And I wonder if you might share why you think getting involved, whether it’s in government, in a nonprofit, in your neighborhood is important because you certainly have been on that journey.

Susan Crooks: I think that all of what you said is important to get involved everywhere because as a as a leader of a nonprofit, I knew nothing, right? But I knew one thing that we had to help out the community, right? And if you don’t know your community, you know, what good are you going to do? So we wanted we became partners with so many different organizations. We joined Greater Good Greenville, which has been fabulous in us learning so much, not just about simple, you know, civics and your programs that you offer and understanding the community better, but also meeting nonprofits, having education on programs that really help us out.

Susan Crooks: Also, just this idea that you when you are new or even if you’ve lived here forever, there’s so many things that you do not know. You don’t see the real problems until you really hear from the people. And I feel like in our work, we want to hear from everybody, all walks of life so that we can have a better understand of how we can be of service to people through our mental health programs. So I really do appreciate the time.

Katy Smith: Well, and Susan, one thing you pointed out is how much you’ve participated in the work of Greater Good Greenville. And I think it’s not so much the technical support we offer, but it puts us in community with other human beings. And so much of our life is online now and we don’t get to know our neighbors and we don’t get together and solve problems and celebrate the work. And so whatever way you do that in, hopefully you’ll take out your AirPods if you’re listening to this podcast or, you know, turn off your car radio, whatever it is, and just be in community because that’s the way we make a great place.

Susan Crooks: Exactly. And we get we actually are less lonely, you know, because lonely is according to, you know, the surgeon general is an epidemic. And, you know, when we can really reach out and whenever I go to any of your events, I feel like it’s family. And we need more of that.

Scott Butler: Scott Butler, who is president of the board of Friends of the Reedy River was on the pod to talk about Friends of the Reedy and what a gem the Reedy River is. And you all know that if you live in Greenville County, you’ve biked along it, you’ve crossed it, you’ve celebrated it in some way. So what I think is so lovely about Friends of the Reedy, it’s an incredible way that people come together to make sure it stays and becomes even more beautiful in Greenville County. So Scott, tell us some of the ways you’ve seen people come together in in a civic way in the Reedy.

Scott Butler: I always say that we have the best volunteers. They’re the most enthusiastic group of people that I’ve ever worked with. And they these are this is these are not easy volunteer jobs. People are getting in the water, they’re getting wet, they’re getting muddy, they’re getting in the water in April when it’s still cold in the water, but they’re very enthusiastic. And that’s generally what I’ve encountered since moving to Greenville is there’s a wonderful community here of volunteers and philanthropic organizations who are just willing to step up and help out in any way possible.

Scott Butler: And if I have a moment, I’d love to tell you about a new project that we’re we’ve undertaken since my last appearance on simple civics. We’ve undertaken a project near Linky Stone Children’s Park. If you’ve ever walked along the Swamp Rabbit trail over there, you notice there’s about two acres of overgrown eye sore right along the trail there. And my board kidded me for several years. They called it Scott’s pipe dream project because I got so tired of seeing this stretch along there.

Scott Butler: So I reached out to Frank Homan at Natural Land Trust who owns the piece of land and proposed to rehabilitate that piece of land and they did not hesitate to say yes. So we’re removing all the invasives. We’re in the process right now of removing all the invasives and between now and the beginning of 2027, we’ll be installing 27 varieties of native trees, shrubs, grasses and perennials along that stretch. And we’re very excited about it. It’s a big project for us because we’re a we’re a pretty small nonprofit and this is a $210,000 endeavor for us. So yeah.

Katy Smith: Wow. That’s incredible. And I’m imagining you mean if I’m headed out of town on the swamp rabbit and I go under the Academy Street Bridge.

Scott Butler: That’s one way. Or if you’re walking, if you’re walking on the swamp rabbit trail from Embassy Suites towards Unity Park. Yes. It’s really the first thing you pass by after you go by Linky Stone’s Children Garden.

Katy Smith: Okay. Well, that is exciting and that is a we all can’t wait to experience that because I know my head always turns towards the river because there’s not much to look at on the other side. I mean, both sides are a mess. So that’s really exciting.

Scott Butler: It is. And we’ve already had four volunteer days to come out and help us dig up the invasives and we’ll have two more in July. And we’re also bringing in an organization from Asheville who removes the really heavy duty plants with mechanical equipment rather with no chemicals involved.

Katy Smith: Wow. And I and I do feel like if you’re someone listening and you think I want to get involved in my community, I don’t know how. I’m new here. I want to meet people. I’m lonely and I just want human connection. What better way to check all those boxes by coming, putting on some boots and helping plant, clean up, remove tires from the river, etc.

Scott Butler: I’ve never worked, I’ve never worked with a more enthusiastic group than the than the volunteers we turn out for this sweaty, dirty work that we have.

Katy Smith: Well, Scott, thanks for all that you do and for keeping our Reedy River beautiful.

Scott Butler: Thank you.

Laura-Allen Kerlin: I’m Laura-Allen Kerlin and I’m with Communities and Schools of South Carolina. And I think one of the reason that simple civics and just learning about local government in general is so important is that it’s so easy to feel helpless. And especially in the nonprofit space, I hear people talk when you meet with partners and volunteers all the time about how they feel like the impact they’re making isn’t enough or they don’t know what to do when you look at the magnitude of poverty and issues in education and other things.

Laura-Allen Kerlin: And being involved locally is a way that we can have a voice and that we feel like we, not just feel like you’re actually have the ability to make an impact and be invested in what’s happening. And if we can change things on a local level, I think we can start to see more broadly the ripple effects of all of that. And it’s a way for us to have agency when you otherwise feel like you don’t have a voice.

Katy Smith: Emily Pool, staff attorney with South Carolina Environmental Law Project is here to do an update on an episode we recorded in 2024 about a cleanup site on Bramlet Road. So the public comment period is closed and now there’s a decision. Emily, tell us what’s the latest.

Emily Pool: Yeah, so this is the Bramlet Road site over here by Unity Park. And last year there was a public comment period hosted by the Department of Environmental Services where they were asking the public for input on the cleanup option that they’ve chosen. We thought it was going to take six months for them to issue a decision. Unfortunately, it took a whole year, but we do now have a decision. And as a result of the public getting involved, making their voice heard, submitting comments, the department has issued a decision that is stronger than the one that they were going to go with before.

Emily Pool: They’ve added steps that the community specifically asked for. And when I was on last time, I think we were encouraging you all to submit comments and and explaining in the light of simple civics that your voice does matter and you can change the outcome of what the department’s going to do. And that exact thing happened. And so now we have a stronger cleanup on the way for this community that has waited for over 30 years for a cleanup since the coal tar contamination was first identified. And we are very, very excited to see this finally come to fruition and the department take a positive step for environmental justice for this community.

Katy Smith: Well, thanks for all that you do, Emily, and congratulations. And you have really done a fantastic job of taking complicated policy, complicated science, making it accessible to folks and creating pathways for people to engage. So we really appreciate you coming on the podcast and and doing this great work for that neighborhood.

Emily Pool: Yeah, of course. And I mean, as I’m sure the message that people have heard if they’ve listened to this podcast for even an episode is that it takes a village. And there are a lot of partners, a lot of people who know the science better than me. I mean, I’m an attorney, so I’m I do get some technical components of things, but I certainly don’t always understand the science. So it’s definitely a partnership of all the nonprofits in this community that all stepped up, including friends of the Reedy River to be there and make sure this community’s voice was heard and and institutions in the community itself, like Mountain View Baptist Church.

Emily Pool: It took all of us coming together to really see this happen. And it’s a very good celebration right on your 200th episode. It’s a good win to take stock of and and see it it matters. And when we work together, it matters. So.

Katy Smith: That’s great, Emily. Thanks for being here.

Emily Pool: Of course.

David White: David White is here, who is the founder of fostering great ideas. And it’s an outstanding organization featured on one of our early episodes. And what is so beautiful about fostering great ideas is it takes a topic that I would think everyone has a heart for, and that is foster care and children in foster care. But a system that very few people actually have contact with, including the very children in it. And David kind of bridges that engagement for folks. So David, talk about the work of fostering great ideas and really how it represents the best of civic life.

David White: Lovely question. The work of fostering great ideas truly is, as you stated, Katy, the seeing, the I acknowledge the child, the 400 today children in Greenville County foster care system where 35% of those 400 will stay over two years, three years, four years. It is a longing for to be acknowledged. And in our civic life, the key here is to acknowledge, to say, I see you, child. You are not a governmental child. You are not a ward of the state. You are a child of our community, of our county. And therefore we respond.

David White: When we become foster parents for teenagers versus simply for children, we respond with strength. When we become mentors for teenagers so they make it to young adulthood without the incredible statistics of isolation for so many children leaving foster care, when we say, I will be with you on this journey as your volunteer, that is a civic act that says, I am going to now see you and I am going to now step out of my normal comfort zone or my normal busy life and I’m going to be on your difficult journey, which is foster care, a difficult journey. You are deemed a ward of the state. We are saying, nope, nope, nope, you are a child. And then for therefore, we respond as a caring community for these 400 children who are literally asking for a response.

David White: That’s the beauty of the work of civic engagement within the foster care arena through us, through others, through faith communities, through Guardian Ad Litem, by being a foster parent, by being a volunteer within our work, we can all make this work for them.

Katy Smith: That is so beautiful and I hope you listening are thinking, gosh, there are so many pathways to be civically engaged. It isn’t necessarily talking at a county council meeting. It isn’t necessarily going to the state house. That term ward of the state, which is an unappealing, terrible term, but it recognizes that the government has stepped into this child’s life in some way. And that you as someone who can house that child, to have that child in your family has made the decision to show up as a community member and of a specific and vitally important way.

David White: Well said. Thank you, Katy.

Katy Smith: Well, David, thanks for all that you do and thanks for being with us to celebrate today.

Katy Smith: We are joined by Joanna Reese, who serves on the board of the Greenville County Redevelopment Authority. And we have done a couple of episodes about serving on a public board or commission, one in which you are appointed by perhaps county council, perhaps the state legislator. One of those is GCRA for short. And so Joanna, this is a really unique way to step up to serve. I’m curious about what compelled you to do it and what you’ve learned.

Joanna Reese: So, I think the the biggest thing was I’m in real estate and have always been tied to nonprofits across the spectrum for as long as I’ve been in Greenville. And as I got into real estate, was really excited to be able to work with a lot of those buyers who over the years I had heard say like, you know, no one really wants to help me, my budget’s too low. And I wanted to work with first-time buyers, teaching about building generational wealth and and all of that.

Joanna Reese: But was really disappointed when over and over there was barriers where people who were paying twice in rent what they would in a mortgage still couldn’t get into a home. And so I think a lot of it was very practical driven this time that I was like, I need to find answers for these people who would like to be homeowners. And as I began to just go through nonprofit after nonprofit and different places, finding that GCRA was kind of a a through line that it is involved in so many pieces, funding whether it’s emergency homelessness shelters or whether it’s helping grants for first-time buyers.

Joanna Reese: And so it was kind of like, oh, I’m going to explore what they do and how it works. And feeling even before I was on the board, I will say frustrated being like, I feel like they’re not doing enough. And so that’s kind of what got me motivated. Once I got on the board, I kind of came in with that like ready to fight idea and was really quickly just in awe of what this board and this entire entity does for the community. And it’s interesting the timing of me really getting in last year is when I became a board member.

Joanna Reese: And right out the gate, I asked Joe, the executive director to like feed me with a water hose, tell me everything. And so I did some like all day tours around Greenville with him to understand what affordable housing actually looks like, what it practically translates to, setting down with some of the employees and learning the books and how the finance pieces work. And right as I’m like, oh wow, like I’m so excited to like understand the potential and all of this beauty was when County Council came in slashing budgets.

Joanna Reese: The federal dollars are obviously drying up, but County Council wanted to cut it 2 million of their 3 million. And so very quickly kind of became on the front lines of of fighting for it to stay intact. But I think the what I’ve learned most over the last year is that there is so many opportunities for people who care to get involved and so many people have asked me like, how did you get there? I literally went to the website, signed up, interviewed and here I am.

Joanna Reese: And so I’ve been challenging a lot of people. It I think a lot of it is timing. The boards you can only apply during certain seasons of the year and a lot of people just miss that, you know, one Instagram post or one post on the website. I think especially millennials just aren’t seeing the opportunities. And I feel like I would like for more people who are in the millennial age group right now that are leading businesses to have that civic awareness that it is very practical and and feasible for them to get involved and plugged in.

Joanna Reese: So I encourage everyone I meet, figure out what your passion is. What is the thing that makes you, your blood pressure go up and you’re like, I’m willing to fight for this. And then find a place to do that. Channel the energy, whether it’s in a board room, whether it’s cleaning up the banks of the Reedy River, whether it’s mentoring a child in foster care, there’s so many opportunities. And I think so many people just are feeling stuck. They don’t know where to channel the energy. And I say jump in. If if you get on a board and it’s not the right fit, you can cycle off and and find a new place, but do something.

Katy Smith: That is great. Do something. That’s a good motto. Well, thank you for all that you do and for helping create more housing opportunities in Greenville County.

Joanna Reese: Absolutely. Thank you.

Nathan Johnson: Well, hey, my name is Nathan Johnson. I’m a rising junior at Furman University. And this summer, I’ve been working a lot with civic engagement and thinking about civic engagement. And reflecting on that, I think we as a society find ourselves in a really interesting juncture of sort of history because throughout time, for I mean for two reasons, I think throughout time, getting involved with our community has been a necessity, not a not a desire that we have to sort of force ourselves to do or sort of get excited to do.

Nathan Johnson: And then second, because of our reach. And you know, very early on, our community was like our family, and then it was like our tribe, and then it was our city and our country. And as technology continues to progress, our reach also continues to progress. And what it what our community means has expanded in such a unique way in even just the past 50 years. And if you think about community in terms of like who you can be involved with and who you can help, our community has sort of nearly reached a global status.

Nathan Johnson: And so then you have to think about how do I get involved because I can’t, you know, fly fly to an area that is just hit by a hurricane in Southeast Asia. So then you have, you know, think about all your different types of capital, right? And you can think about your physical capital, your time, and your money. And so there are different ways to sort of get involved most effectively with all your different types of capital. And so when it comes to volunteering, now because we live in a time when choosing to be involved is not something that you’re forced to do for your survival, when it’s sort of almost a luxury, then where you spend your time is most important and where you can do that best is locally. And I think that’s why volunteering is super important.

Katy Smith: Kelly Byers is with us. She is on Travelers Rest City Council, but I have known Kelly a long time because we have both served in a nonprofit organization together. She was on the board and I was staff at an organization. But it’s been so outstanding to see Kelly lead on City Council. So Kelly, I’m curious about just your thoughts on civics and that connection between nonprofits and government.

Kelly Byers: Well, I tell people all the time how important it is to be involved in local government and how most elected officials aren’t elected because of our expertise in housing or policy or policing or zoning or trash pickup. And those are the things that really impact the day-to-day. So I’m constantly telling people your engagement is so important to the process and we rely so heavily on citizens who are passionate about those issues, who are knowledgeable to help us make informed decisions about policy and what’s important to the residents.

Katy Smith: And I appreciate how you lean on residents. I’m sure that residents lean on you because they live in Travelers Rest, they’ve got a question, a concern, a complaint, an idea. As you’ve helped people navigate their engagement, what kind of light bulbs have you seen go off for folks?

Kelly Byers: Oh, I think so much of being an elected official is educating people and really realizing the partnership between citizens and people in office. So I’m so glad that you have a postal code episode now. I refer people to that episode all the time because when I was first campaigning 10 years ago, I was going around door-to-door and a lot of people in Travelers Rest have a Greenville address. And I would knock on their door and they’d say, oh, I’m sure you’re great, but I live in Greenville.

Kelly Byers: And I’m like, well, I wouldn’t be here on Saturday at 9:00 a.m. if I wasn’t. Sure. And so, you know, there’s a lot of confusion about where people live. There’s a lot to educate yourselves about when you’re moving to a new area, which TR has certainly seen a lot of. So I I love that I can learn alongside citizens and citizens can learn alongside elected officials as well. And truly, I send people to the podcast all the time to help them understand matters. And I’m learning constantly from the podcast episodes too.

Katy Smith: Thanks for that. And me too. I mean, a lot of times there’s something that I think, why is it like that? So I do a little research and say, let’s do a podcast episode on it. So.

Kelly Byers: Well, when I was elected the first time, I thought like, oh, I’ll get a phone call. Someone will confirm and tell me that this is legitimate. You know, I got zero phone call. Like, I see the results posted on the news just like everyone else. And so I really had to to learn and educate myself on policies and and decisions that we would make. So I’m grateful for for your curiosity and the research that you do and and the education you provide all of us.

Katy Smith: Awesome. Well, we’re grateful to you, Kelly. Thanks for being here.

Harper Lumpkin: Hi, my name is Harper Lumpkin and I am a rising junior at Furman University. And this summer, I am one of Greater Good Greenville’s summer interns. And to me, civic engagement is staying informed not just nationally, but locally, and then also doing something with that information, whether that be volunteering or going and speaking at city city council, county council or the school board and just taking that information that you’ve learned and taking those things that you’re passionate about and really giving something back to your community so you can make it a better place than how you found it.

Betsy Rogers: Hi, my name is Betsy Rogers. I’m also an intern at Greater Good Greenville this year. I am a rising senior at Furman University. And we’ve been working a lot with civic engagement this summer with Harper and Nathaniel and it’s been really awesome being able to talk to different kinds of community leaders from nonprofit leaders to politicians or people aspiring politicians, going to Greenville County school boards and city councils and it’s been really awesome.

Betsy Rogers: But one thing that everyone has in common, even if you volunteer or you give money or you’re working on the money side or the volunteering side, everything that I’ve learned is that the people who are civically engaged are the ones who love Greenville the most. And they love it enough to change it in the best ways. And I think the passion that I’ve seen is is personal and it’s because they love Greenville County and they love South Carolina and they love America more broadly.

Betsy Rogers: And so civic engagement to me is an act of selfless love. And being able to recognize that your community needs you as much as your family needs you, as much as you need yourself. It’s been really beautiful and inspiring to see that this summer and I’m really excited to see it more throughout the year and throughout my, you know, life, being able to recognize that I think I’ve learned that a lot from this summer and from you, Katy, because you clearly love Greenville and that’s why you started this podcast, you know, it’s so wonderful to work for someone like you because it’s you’re so enthusiastic about Greater Good Greenville and about Greenville County and I think it’s beautiful.

Kerri Smith: Well, first of all, I want to say congratulations to Katy and the Simply Civics team for putting together an amazing podcast. A few years ago, I considered running for office. And when Simply Civics started, it gave me a foundation of our laws and how our government works locally. I think most of us kind of know what happens on the federal level, just we learned a little bit in school, but how do we engage? How do we make change in our communities?

Kerri Smith: And I went on to run for South Carolina House District 28. And Simply Civics ended up being my foundation of understanding home rule, about understanding how individuals can make a difference. And also learn about the topics that really create thriving communities. And so I want to just say thank you. And if anybody’s out there listening and they’re thinking about stepping up to the plate and making a difference in our communities, start with Simply Civics because it will give you the foundation you need to be able to talk through topics and issues that are important to the people in our community.